Crafton Hills/Zanja Peak - #CraftonHills/ZanjaPeak

Socal - San Bernardino County - Yucaipa NickNames: #CraftonHills/ZanjaPeak

From the L.A., Riverside, and Orange County areas, take the 10 East and exit Yucaipa Blvd. Go North (left) on Yucaipa Blvd for app. 2 miles to 14th/Sand Canyon St. Turn left and go up the road. Turn right into Crafton Hills College and follow the road around until you see the tennis courts. Park. There is a service road that runs along side the tennis courts, through the golf course, and heads up towards the giant satellite dish atop the mountain. Follow this road up, and you will see the fire road. This fire road travels through the entire Crafton Hills area. The trail is approximately 6 miles long from end to end. There are so many various routes that can be taken, that it is too difficult to enter them all here on this site. Riding along the fire road itself is an excellant beginner ride. Very scenic, very easy. The highest point that you will see is Zanja Peak. There are several roads leading up to it. Many are definite "hike-a-bikes". However, around the back there is a ridable one. Not only will this lead you to the peak, but just below the summit you will see a single track section that seems to just keep going forever. This is an excellant single track. It has some excellant technical sections. Taking the single track route all the way down will lead you into Yucaipa Regional Park. I absolutely love riding in the Crafton Hills area as I can ride leisurely, or if I want I can challenge myself on the many technicals and steeps. If you would like more information, Please feel free to e-mail me and I will give you any info you desire. Have fun, ride safe, and I'll see you on the Single-track. Sean Stodelle- SStody@webtv.net Thomas Guide page 649 C2

34 Review(s)1 Photo(s)Login

• Trail UpdateTrail Is Regularly Maintained-The trail is in good condition with minimal ruts and a couple of different tracks to explore. My favorite way to go on this trail is to start at the mid point trail off of Oak Glenn Rd by the soccer complex. Its a pretty steep trail, once you reach Zanja Peak you can either loop around through Yucaipa Regional Park or go down the other side and head over to crafton hills College. I like to go back down the way i came because it offers some good technical single track. Still havent gone down the Crafton Hills College side but im sure it offers more single track.
  itillen a 28 year old Weekend Warrior riding a 09 Santa Cruz Heckler from Beaumont, Ca

  Posted:10/23/2011

• Trail UpdateA couple new single tracks constructed off Chapman Heights Road leading up into the hills. Very good riding. Up one, short traverse and down second trail is about 2-1/2 miles.
  Tiger40c a 52 year old Cross-Country Rider

  Posted:10/03/2011

• Trail UpdateRuts Suck!-The trail was awesome. We took a friend up to introduce him to the trail and he loved it. The trail was hard packed with a few spots of bigger loose rocks. On the way down, my wife lead us down the single tracks. One of the downhills, we all started to walk the bikes because the ruts and rocks were bad juju. Being the adventurer that I am, I picked a good line and started down on my bike. I would of made it if I hadn't startled my wife when I passed her. I ended up going over and attempted to go through my bike as I landed on a nice fluffy pile of sharp edged rocks. I did finish the ride on my own but stuck to the main road. My wife has wrapped me up with bandages and ice packs and is insisting that I go to the hospital. She thinks I broke my shoulder. I'll let you know who was right later. I still love this trail but the ruts suck!
  commandermungo a 41 year old Weekend Warrior

  Posted:03/15/2009

• Trail UpdateIt's Been Awhile!!!!-I was talking to a neighbor of mine about MTB riding and got on the subject of local trials. He's been wanting to get some miles in doing the lower portion of SART from OC to the beach. I told him that a really good local trail I used to ride a bunch is not far from us being in Beaumont, and that beats having to head all the way down to OC,"fuel prices and all". While im basically new to Beaumont(6 mo.), originally from Redlands and since i haven't been able to find the same quality of trail out here. Zenja Pk in Crafton Hills is by far the best local trail with-in a fifteen minute drive. Althought Loma Linda would also be a good choice but is just a little bit to far for a last minute late in the afternoon choice for me. Although I haven't been out there in at least a year i was wondering if the conditions have changed? Last time i was out there I was approached by a campus officer who told me that my trusty companion "Wilson" my beagle was not allowed on the campus. In fact that's probably why I stopped riding there. Well, I'm getting the itch to get back and even If I cant take my four legged friend I am looking forward to all the awesome single track. I'll probably head-up this weekend and will post a follow up update later.
  commandermungo a 41 year old Weekend Warrior riding a M-80 Hardtail from Beaumont

  Posted:03/15/2009

• Trail UpdateWhere To Park-Just an FYI to everyone. If you are parking at Crafton College...go to lot D and buy a one day parking pass. It only costs $1 and it allows you to park in any of the lots. It is much less than the $20 fine for not having one!

  Oh ya....and be sure to bring a spare tube, it might not seem like a real back country trip but running your bike out sucks no matter where you are!

  Happy Riding
  rbrook

  Posted:11/27/2008

• Crafton Hills/Zanja Peak-Sean,
  
  Thanks for posting Crafton hills to So Cal MtB. I went there as a novice being that I haven't road any bikes for about 10 years. I picked up this 200.00 new schwinn with helmet and all, then one day decided I better use this thing. So I get up to the college..Get my new bike out, was glad to finally be there. I started up the paved road followed your directions just as you posted it. Tennis courts ok, big satellite ok. I am definitely out of shape I found. I had to stop like 3 times to get up the fricken paved road. I noticed about have way up that my pedal was hanging on by about 3 threads which where cross threaded might I add. So after realizing no tools where going to be coming up the hill any time soon and of course I thought about it befor I left but didn't actually bring a crescent wrench for my self.. I went back down the road to the car drove to some local repair shop and fixed the pedal..Ok now I'm ready. Back to the paved road which is where I had to take 3 out of breath stops, do to probably being 44 and oh yeah and a smoker. I got to the small fire road.
  
  I get on that road and after about three more rest stops ended up to the first peak..was that Zanja peak.
  Anyway, I must of went maybe a mile and a half possibly two. It was fun even though I made it to what seemed to me the high point of the trail. As I went back down back to the paved road I picked up some pretty good speed which I found to be alittle more tricky than I anticipated. No, I didn't eat it but probably should of. There was a cute young gal at the end of the fire road just before I got to the paved area smiling at me and I suppose it was because I just about went over the edge of that last dirt turn and I smiled as I passed her saying there's nothing worse than a novice going down hill.
  
  Anyway I had fun and learned what I need for the next trip up there, Thanks for the post or I would of probably never gotten on that bike, It is a neat scenic ride but that incline was a slow killer for me.
  I'm sure in time I'll actually be able to do the full coarse.
  
  Thanks Again Mark

  
  
  Ride rating: Intermediate
  Dirt Road=90% Paved Path=10%
  Mark P a 44 year old Weekend Warrior riding a Schwinn 21 speed $220.00 Mt Bk from San Bernardino

  Posted:02/19/2008

• Trail UpdateMountain Lions!-Was on the trail today with my wife and trusty dog Wilson when we crossed paths with another rider that happened to be descending as we were ascending. This guy told us to be on the lookout for mountain lions because he had seen one earlier. Turns out that the local rangers are also aware of the lion or lions they believe it's because there's deer in the area this time of year. The guy we ran into said that when he happened upon this predator he startled it the lion then growled and ran away.
  commandermungo a 39 year old Weekend Warrior riding a Raleigh M80/ Specialized Hardrock from Redlands

  Posted:04/14/2007

• Trail UpdateGreat Workout!-I rode this trail last weekend right after we got some rain in the area and have to agree with one of the other posters that the trail is fairly firm and grippy right after it rains. I usually ride with with my beagle Wilson running right beside me and we both loved it. Rode up the fire road to the peak at just about 4 miles in about forty minutes, pretty good workout. Turned around and enjoyed the return trip in just 10 minutes with some decent down hill speeds. I would recommend this trail to just about any level of rider since it seems theres plenty of single track to explore just off the main fire road. The weather was great since i think it helped to keep the rattle snakes off the trail.
  commandermungo a 39 year old Weekend Warrior riding a 05' Raleigh M80 from Redlands

  Posted:04/13/2007

• Trail UpdateGreat Trail-I rode this trail yesterday with a friend. We rode from Redlands up through the college then on to the fire road to it's hightest point. We continued on the fire road until it came to three seperate trail options, we chose the single track on the far left. Well it was a great descent although a little rutted, some pretty steep and technical trail with loose rocks and other parts that were steep but fairly smooth and fast. This fairly long section of single track was a ton of fun. At the end it dumped us out on Hyw 38 and we rode home from there for a 15 mile round trip.
  johnu a 46 year old Weekend Warrior riding a Stumpjumper from Redlands, CA

  Posted:02/28/2007

• Trail UpdateStill Searching-The last couple of posts led me to believe that I might see wild snakes or nakedness while on this trail. No such luck. The weather was nice though.
  jomomma a 34 year old Racer riding a heckler from yucaipa

  Posted:10/01/2006

• Trail Updaterode this trail this morning around 11:15. climbed to the peak and came down. normally i split off to reg. park or grape street but it was just too hot today. sadly, i didnt see this topless hottie thats been spotted. maybe tomarrow. keep your eye out for LARGE angry snakes!!!
  fyrfytrryn a 21 year old Cross-Country Rider riding a cannondale from yucaipa

  Posted:09/01/2006

• Trail UpdateTopless?-Rode up the crafton fireroad and down the ridge singletrack yesterday. One word: speed. Another word: topless. On the climb up I passed a topless hottie jogging down. She was shyly covering herself up, but from what I could tell the rack looked really healthy. Let's hope that's a trend that continues.
  mrscary a 32 year old Cross-Country Rider riding a santa cruz from redlands

  Posted:07/31/2006

• Trail UpdateThe relatively late spring has spring big time on this route. There is some foliage on the climb itself, but all is very rideable. Plenty of mustard weed and large shrubs with showy purple/blue flowers. Air kind of hazy this evening and the weather has turned warm, but this is still an evening favorite of mine. The green grasses and flowers won't last long in this heat. Soon it will all be brown and the thermometer will rise. Still, this is a go-to ride for me any time.

  Posted:05/11/2006

• Trail UpdateRode Crafton on Saturday morning, after a light rain overnight -- in my opinion, the best time to hit this trail. There had been just enough rain to make the surface hard and grippy. The views northeast to the snow-covered mountains above Redlands and Yucaipa were inspiring, especially the small squalls of rain we saw coming our way. However, we received only a few raindrops, a few of which MIGHT have been snowflakes. The single track going down to the regional park was in okay condition. Some of the switchback turns are moderately eroded. Good idea to keep your eyes open for water runoff trenches that have been carved in this section. They pose no problem, you can ride right over them.
  barton a 46 year old Weekend Warrior riding a Salsa Juan Solo from Loma Linda, CA

  Posted:02/19/2006

• Trail UpdateCrafton Trail-rode the trail for the first time today in years.. rode to the peak and ascended to the trail markers.. i took the east orange one until it hit the first hard right switchback. turned around and came back up because i didnt know where it went. i climbed back the the peak and headed back to the start point. about 2 miles up from the start, theres a track that shoots left up to the ridge. this trail goes to the top of the ridge, them splits off left towards the highschool. the right goes down, then up, then back down to the fire road. in that dip between the hills, theres a SHARP left that single tracks into the canyon, it appears to go to the new chapman heights road behind the skatepark.. has anyone ridden this, or even know what im talking about? also, at the trail markers, theres a trail thats to the left of the east trail that climbs, at that the peak you can clearly see a resivour.. how long has that been there, and whats it for? if i keep goin down the main fireroad, where do i end up? im extremely interested in learning about and riding all of the trails off the crafton fire road,please email me with any info about them, let me know if you want to ride aswell.
  fyrfytrryn a 21 year old Cross-Country Rider riding a cannondale jekyll from yucaipa!

  Posted:02/13/2006

• Trail UpdateCatamount!-Saw a mountain lion right smack dab on the Crafton fireroad on my way up to Yikes! yesterday evening. It was probably a female, not too large maybe 75 - 100 lbs. Still though, be careful up there, especially the solo riders.
  sweno a 31 year old Cross-Country Rider riding a cannondale from redlands

  Posted:06/10/2005

• Trail UpdateWinter Rides-I have ridden the Crafton Hills fire road several times this winter,
  including once after a freak storm dumped a bunch of snow in Yuciapa.
  That was SWEET!!! The heavy rains in January did do some damages to
  the road, but it was all rideable. Watch for a washout on the left about
  a mile from the gate at Crafton Hills College. There are a few minor
  mud and/or rock slices along the way, all could be easily ridden
  around. A day after the last storm, the morning view of Yucaipa ridge/
  SB Mountains and the upper Yucaipa valley reminded me of a view of
  the Swiss Alps. I'm getting all I can of this trail before the weather
  heats up. This is absolutely the best time to ride it!
  Tiger a Cross-Country Rider riding a Salsa Juan Solo from Loma Linda, CA

  Posted:02/01/2005

• Trail UpdateRe: Judy's Jump Off (Rutzilla)?-You refer to Judy's trail. I remember the local Mentone riders use a trail called Judy's Jump Off. This leads to either the Grape Street trail or all the way around the base of the hill back into Mentone. We always called it Rutzilla ever since we downhilled on our modded (geared) BMX cruisers (late '70s-early '80s). This tail does not begin at the end of the Crafton Fire Road. If you take the fireroad all the way, it dumps you at the gate behind the Regional Parks. Judy's is a little past the summit of Crafton Fireroad. On the outside of a turn (North) is a area the narrows into a trail that seems to dive right off of the edge of the cliff. Closer inspection reveals some of the choicest, hairiest downhill. All I have to say is, for the weak at heart, drop your seat and drag both feet. LOL Have fun. There is a singletrack that has only been there for about 10 years now (part of the new trails at the bottom of Judy's) that is a little more riding but quite a bit safer. I don't know if this is called Judy's trail or not but this is a bit closer to the gate than the Jumpoff.
  Ride rating: Expert
  Sean Baldwin a 36 year old Weekend Warrior riding a Old Triple Butted Cro-Mo frame from Redlands, CA

  Posted:05/02/2004

• Trail UpdateRe: Judy's Jump Off (Rutzilla)?-You refer to Judy's trail. I remember the local Mentone riders use a trail called Judy's Jump Off. This leads to either the Grape Street trail or all the way around the base of the hill back into Mentone. We always called it Rutzilla ever since we downhilled on our modded (geared) BMX cruisers (late '70s-early '80s). This tail does not begin at the end of the Crafton Fire Road. If you take the fireroad all the way, it dumps you at the gate behind the Regional Parks. Judy's is a little past the summit of Crafton Fireroad. On the outside of a turn (North) is a area the narrows into a trail that seems to dive right off of the edge of the cliff. Closer inspection reveals some of the choicest, hairiest downhill. All I have to say is, for the weak at heart, drop your seat and drag both feet. LOL Have fun. There is a singletrack that has only been there for about 10 years now (part of the new trails at the bottom of Judy's) that is a little more riding but quite a bit safer. I don't know if this is called Judy's trail or not but this is a bit closer to the gate than the Jumpoff.
  Ride rating: Expert
  Sean Baldwin a 36 year old Weekend Warrior riding a Old Triple Butted Cro-Mo frame from Redlands, CA

  Posted:05/02/2004

• Trail UpdateRe: Judy's Jump Off (Rutzilla)?-You refer to Judy's trail. I remember the local Mentone riders use a trail called Judy's Jump Off. This leads to either the Grape Street trail or all the way around the base of the hill back into Mentone. We always called it Rutzilla ever since we downhilled on our modded (geared) BMX cruisers (late '70s-early '80s). This tail does not begin at the end of the Crafton Fire Road. If you take the fireroad all the way, it dumps you at the gate behind the Regional Parks. Judy's is a little past the summit of Crafton Fireroad. On the outside of a turn (North) is a area the narrows into a trail that seems to dive right off of the edge of the cliff. Closer inspection reveals some of the choicest, hairiest downhill. All I have to say is, for the weak at heart, drop your seat and drag both feet. LOL Have fun. There is a singletrack that has only been there for about 10 years now (part of the new trails at the bottom of Judy's) that is a little more riding but quite a bit safer. I don't know if this is called Judy's trail or not but this is a bit closer to the gate than the Jumpoff.
  Ride rating: Expert
  Sean Baldwin a 36 year old Weekend Warrior riding a Old Triple Butted Cro-Mo frame from Redlands, CA

  Posted:05/02/2004

• Trail UpdateRe: Judy's Jump Off (Rutzilla)?-You refer to Judy's trail. I remember the local Mentone riders use a trail called Judy's Jump Off. This leads to either the Grape Street trail or all the way around the base of the hill back into Mentone. We always called it Rutzilla ever since we downhilled on our modded (geared) BMX cruisers (late '70s-early '80s). This tail does not begin at the end of the Crafton Fire Road. If you take the fireroad all the way, it dumps you at the gate behind the Regional Parks. Judy's is a little past the summit of Crafton Fireroad. On the outside of a turn (North) is a area the narrows into a trail that seems to dive right off of the edge of the cliff. Closer inspection reveals some of the choicest, hairiest downhill. All I have to say is, for the weak at heart, drop your seat and drag both feet. LOL Have fun. There is a singletrack that has only been there for about 10 years now (part of the new trails at the bottom of Judy's) that is a little more riding but quite a bit safer. I don't know if this is called Judy's trail or not but this is a bit closer to the gate than the Jumpoff.
  Ride rating: Expert
  Sean Baldwin a 36 year old Weekend Warrior riding a Old Triple Butted Cro-Mo frame from Redlands, CA

  Posted:05/02/2004

• Trail UpdateCrafton-judys trail is all the way at end of crafton / road crafton again today another gruling ride from redlands to wash trail via crafton.
  fred a 40 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a santa cruz light from redlands

  Posted:11/30/2003

• Trail UpdateHey Fred, Where to you catch the turn off to Judy's trail....Thanks
  Milehigh a 45 year old Cross-Country Rider riding a Giant VT1 from Calimesa

  Posted:09/28/2003

• Trail Updateroad from redlands via orange groves up through the college and all the way down through to yikes trail, crazy craiger miss turn out and rode down judys jump on his enduro. came down the mentone single track, very hot day to ride when you start at 8am
  Ride distance: 19miles Elevation change:
  fred a 40 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a santa cruz lite from redlands

  Posted:09/28/2003

• Trail UpdateCrafton Ridge-Hey you crazy Wed night riders who hoot and holler when you fly down the hill.. When I get my light I will join you. See you on the singletrack.
  Ride rating: Intermediate
  Mentone resident a 30 year old Cross-Country Rider riding a Giant NSR from Mentone

  Posted:09/25/2003

• Trail UpdateZanga Peak Via Judys-road from yucaipa through grape st trail and climbed JUDYS then up to the peak came down the zig zag(laceration trail) very over grown good work out for a night ride
  Ride rating: Advanced
  Ride distance: 12miles Elevation change:
  fred a 40 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a santa cruz from redlands

  Posted:09/13/2003

• Trail UpdateSingletrack Overgrown-
  Rode up the fireroad this last weekend. Had planned to come down the singletrack off the top, but it was severely overgrown. Instead just came down the face and back down the fireroad. Hopefully this trail gets cleaned up soon. This can be a great singletrack.

  This is definately a beginner ride if you stay on the fireroad. If you take any of the singletracks it becomes intermediate in most places and advanced in a couple. Watch for snakes also. I've seen one rattler on this ride.
  Jeff a 28 year old Weekend Warrior

  Posted:07/26/2003

• Trail UpdateCrafton/ Downhill Splinter Trail-"Wed. Night" nite ride last week . we rode out of redlands, via through the orange groves off highland. to crafton by golf course. began the long,long uphill climb.(gotta love it)finally reaching the end found the entrance to the downhill that takes you along the lower part of crafton just above hwy 38. talk about technical its was stomach on the seat action. yes 2 of us went down, but not too bad (just a wood splinter in my shin and madman rocking Ray made contact with his knee on a boulder) a great ride at night "kid dont try this a home." the trail ends behind the house on hwy 38 by the mentone single track where the blacktop is.we took the rest of single track back to redlands
  Ride rating: Advanced
  Ride distance: 15miles Elevation change:
  fred a 39 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a santacruz light from redlands

  Posted:11/23/2002

• Trail UpdateCrafton/wash Combo-rode from redlands up to crafton via the groves/down o judys jump/ then to hwy 38 and to the wash trail/ back to redlands. what a workout i guesstimate it to be around 20 to 30 miles do not really know but its alot of climbing.very fun ride though.
  fred a 39 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a santa cruz lite from redlands

  Posted:07/20/2002

• Trail UpdateCrafton Hills-road this trail backwards from redlands via the mentone singletrack/wash trail, take the trail off saffire all along to wash trail and look for cut out to cross hwy 38, go by cut out of fence up toward water dam area, look for singletrack that takes you up to the water dam you can see another singletrack i think its called judys, ride that up ,or hike a bike the fire road you will see the end of crafton trail just follow that to the college. alot of trails to take that lead there and back to redlands off highland st. you can do this loop from the college through the wash and back to redlands also
  Ride rating: Intermediate
  Ride distance: too many Elevation change:
  fred a 39 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a santa cruz lite from redlands

  Posted:06/08/2002

• Trail UpdateCrafton Hills - Yucaipa Regional-Rode acroos the Crafton Hills fire road to the regional park trails. You can catch the trails a short way past the summit of the fire road. They are marked with vertical white posts placed by SB County Regional Parks. Go to the left for the east trail which lets out inside the park and to the right for the west trail which comes out just below 5th st on Oak Glen road. The west trail is a little more work to get to, but I think it is a more enjoyable ride down. I took the east downhill on Saturday, still lots of gravel and off camber turns. Also much more switchbacks this way. Rode down the west trail on Sunday. Now that we have had some rain the trail is firming up, but needs more bike traffic to cut a good line through the horse tracks. I would rate the trails intermediate because of the tight switchbacks and extremely steep drops off the side of the trail.
  Ride rating: Intermediate
  Sartman a 44 year old riding a Jekyll from Calimesa

  Posted:12/24/2001

• Trail UpdateCrafton Hills/Zanja Peak-I have been riding this trail complex for quite some time and the bulldozed trails are unfortunetly now almost all off-camber. Also, the area is being invaded with lots of non-native plant species, like star-thistle, knapweed, goats head, etc. Most of those species are pretty nasty and can ruin your riding experience, so be careful on the less explored trails. Recently, I found myself in a forest of knapweed and riding through it really sucked. To add insult to injury, I ended up double flating due to the goats head. The only good news is that parts the previously closed Windmill trail (on the NE side of the hills) is accessable once again. Its a bit hard to find so I am not going to explain it here, but from the Windmill trail you can get to the Yucaipa Wash trail making for a pretty nice ride with lots of great single track!
  Sean a 32 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a Litespeed OBED from Redlands, CA

  Posted:11/29/2001

• Trail UpdateSingle Track Update-About 3 weeks ago I decided to do a loop from Yucaipa Regional Park to Crafton College (on the pavement) and then up the fireroad to the top and down the single track from the summit and back to the car. It had been awhile since I'd been on the single track and I couldn't wait because this is a great single track down with lots of tight turns. When I started down I noticed they'd done some maintenance. They took a little bulldozer and bulldozed the trail. It had become so overgrown that I guess they had to but it pretty much ruined the ride. The dirt was soft and not nearly as technical as it had once been. To make things worse about halfway down they had stopped bulldozing and the trail almost wasn't ridable it was so overgrown. They've since bulldozed the rest.

  I think as the dirt hardens (hopefully it does) the trail will improve. This used to be one of the best single tracks I'd been on even though it was just a couple of miles and I'd only been on it 3-4 times.

  Today I did the loop again but went down the other single track with all the switch backs. This had been bulldozed as well but I doubt it affected this trail as much (I don't know though because I'd never been on it before). Not as good of a way down but I'd do it again.
  
  Ride rating: Intermediate
  Ride distance: about 10 miles Elevation change:
  Singletrack=30% Dirt Road=40% Paved Path=30%
  Jeff Stanners a 26 year old Weekend Warrior riding a Nishiki Pinnacle ('89) from Redlands, CA

  Posted:07/09/2001

• Trail UpdateSpecial note: If you do ride the single tracks, please be careful. We have had some erosion in the area that has made certain parts of the trail EXTREMELY technical. Use your common sense and good judgement. You will also come across many sharp, tight turns in the area. Please control your speed as it is a LONG way down should you overshoot the trail. Please contact me for more info: Sean Stodelle- SStody@webtv.net
  Singletrack=20% Dirt Road=78% Paved Path=2%
  Sean Stodelle a 25 year old Racer riding a '97 GT LTS-1 from Yucaipa, CA

  Posted:07/25/1997